Programmable ECU on 20V

[fandango]

I came across this statement posted by marksatchi of club4ag:

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]STANDALONE
The biggest gain your going to get out of your 20v is via a standalone. Why? because the stock 20v computers run VERY conservative ignition mapping. On some parts of my ignition map, you can see that the total timing is 42 degrees and I never ran it lean/detonated/pinged ever."

I wonder if anyone with a full aftermkt programmable ECU on his 20v would care to share his experience/dyno charts/etc. Also would having a distributorless setup make more sense with an aftermkt ECU, since it's able to alter timing at rpm intervals, where the current 20v distributor fixes the timing across all rpm bands (if this is this true) ?

Learning about programmable ECU functions sure seems highly interesting....

cheers :shades_smile:
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[GT20v]

yes..sir.........with correct tune........it will unleash the true power of the engine......not gain same concept as with exhaust...........hehehe
i heard standalone n stock blacktop can give a round [email protected] heard only....dun ask me any proof......:)........emmm maybe u can check that guy ae86 with 150+@wheel from stock blacktop...

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

True power if with good tuning,bad tuning=bad power,hehe..i run ignition timing as high as 45 never knock...coz got knock control..:regular_smile:

 

[speedchaser]

Ignition timing varies across the RPM. The higher the RPM the more timing you need unless it's boosted. Toyota have for years runs on conservative timing and a standalone will fix it across the range.

42 degrees is superb on a Toyota at the higher RPM ranges. 45 degrees is cutting it very close, unless you have good gas and some very fine tuning, it will knock the sh** out of your balls. Or unless like Cus said if you have some form of knock retards you'll be juggling knives without the handles.

I've used Protech (Mr. Leow's ECU) for quite sometime and I've cut it to about 44 degrees with good gas on my 4AGTE with no problems.

 

[QiW]

IF i do start playing with 4A again .. standalone will be my 1st chioce of mod laaaa .. the stock blktop engine with 6 speed oso very good liauuu ... just need some good electronics to run it .... then again .. $$$$ probs ... hahahahaaha

 

[LevinTE27]

i have 52 advanced for my turbo setup. 20psi ,never see ping yet.
4AG love timing very much, i gain 1sec from 1/4mile with stock ecu switch to microtech. it gain more than 50hp with juz playing around with timing and fuel map.

i believe 20v love timing too...

 

[fandango]

Hmmm...yummy. I never knew one can advance timing to 42 degrees! whoa.

AE86 with 150 on wheel...is that the 16v or 20v?

A gain of 50hp just with timing and fueling play seems too good to be true...but then again, it may be different on a turbo.

Much to learn I have.

Cusco, are you running stock or programmable ECU?

Speed, you are driving a Corona, right?

 

[-JW-]

hey guys.. my car is stock... when i told my workshop i wanted to install microtech he said what for?? he said must upgrade engine first.. do you think hes right or do you think i shold just install?

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

Fandago..I use stand alone..more info PM me :regular_smile:

 

[Acoustic]

hi fandango

this is not true.

there's no difference between distributor and distributorless in the sense that you mention.

20v engine can retain the distributor, while using stand-alone and still able to adjust timing at whatever rpm internal, as long as the software has the feature.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Also would having a distributorless setup make more sense with an aftermkt ECU, since it's able to alter timing at rpm intervals, where the current 20v distributor fixes the timing across all rpm bands (if this is this true) ?
cheers :shades_smile:
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[QiW]

eehhh ??? china can access ZTH again liauu worrrr ... hehehehehhee

 

[Acoustic]

hi fandango

from the few posts you made, I am worried you confused yourself between timing and ignition timing

now, the basic timing we talk about is regular, idling timing, normally 10 degrees book spec for toyota and 5 degrees mitsubishi, and so on

this timing can only be change physically by rotating the distributor or crank/cam reader on mitsubishi and others.

but if you have stand-alone like motec, then you can set in the software, no need to dirty the hand anymore.



the other timing is the ignition timing, it is fully software controlled, i.e. ignition map.

i.e. ignition fire / spark angle versus TPS, versus rpm

as well as

ignition versus rpm versus speed

etc etc etc

we have to think in multiple^multiple dimension, cannot think in one dimension

many people are ignorant of this - hence you often only see people talk about fuel map. they would spent 99% on the fuel map and not border much about ignition map

hope this help, and sorry if I was wrong about you being confused.

Hmmm...yummy. I never knew one can advance timing to 42 degrees! whoa.

AE86 with 150 on wheel...is that the 16v or 20v?

A gain of 50hp just with timing and fueling play seems too good to be true...but then again, it may be different on a turbo.

Much to learn I have.

Cusco, are you running stock or programmable ECU?

Speed, you are driving a Corona, right?

 

[EFN]

Yup, it is true that OEM Toyota ECU runs very conservative Ignition maps. I have driven and tested a local 4A-FE which has been rigged with MSD 6AL (Standalone Ignition Management Box) - easily that 4A-FE scores 114HP @ 6500RPM at the front wheel - which is more powerful that most stock Silvertop 20V can make (120HP @ 7800RPM). It have to be pointed out that most 4A-FE only scores at around 80 to 90HP @ 6500RPM.

And another example, one AVANZA in Thailand scored a whopping 110WHP at the rear wheel after being tuned using the latest Unichip - crazy huh.

 

[speedchaser]

Yep, Fandango. Me the one with the Corona 4AGTE and trying to part with the car with a heavy heart in the buy/sell section.

What Chin said is right on the basic timing which we have to set before fooling around with the ECU. I fix the distributor to set at 10 BTDC, then use the software to idle at 16 degrees.

No matter how much you adjust the fuel map there will be very little effect on the power output. If you hold it on a dyno at 5k and load up to 0.8 Bar, play around with the Fuel Map and no matter what AFR you get (from 11.0 to 16.0) the power will change BUT only change slightly and the result you get is knocking if it's too lean and black smoke if it's too rich.

But using the same method and if u play around with the timing, you will see a huge change in power output. Ignition timing has a direct effect on the power output. Don't have to take my word for it and if u do access the dyno, u will see for yourself.

A lot of people don't dare to touch the timing because many a engine goes 'boom' because of wrong ignition settings on different load points and wrong igniter dwell angle settings. That's the risk... more risk more power! :)

Anything that can just adjust only the Fuel Map will be worthless to me. Fact is, if you can't control the ignition timing, means you are not doing any tuning at all.

 

[Force Performance]

:shades_smile: U don't need 2 replace 2 d programmable type Ecu 2 advance d 20v timing. U can just rotate yr. distributor if u require more advance ignition.

Would b wonder what type of fuel u use? :shades_smile: If yr 20v mods really need that much ign. It means this engine having a very in-efficient combustion frame front.

 

[GT20v]

:shades_smile: U don't need 2 replace 2 d programmable type Ecu 2 advance d 20v timing. U can just rotate yr. distributor if u require more advance ignition.

Would b wonder what type of fuel u use? :shades_smile: If yr 20v mods really need that much ign. It means this engine having a very in-efficient combustion frame front.

hahhahahaha.......i dunno how to react to this.......:cyclops::cyclops:

 

[wllim5]

wrong quote

 

[wllim5]

:shades_smile: U don't need 2 replace 2 d programmable type Ecu 2 advance d 20v timing. U can just rotate yr. distributor if u require more advance ignition.

Would b wonder what type of fuel u use? :shades_smile: If yr 20v mods really need that much ign. It means this engine having a very in-efficient combustion frame front.

Whoa!!!! so long didn't come into TOYOTA forum.
Hello sifu sifu sekalian. Esspecially speed chaser sifu. When free we talk about performance mod again in your good old place.

Adjust the distributor will alter the triggers which will indeed made changes to the ignition timing but not for very long you will see the standard ecu detects noise and retards the timing. At the same time doing that not only make the ecu confuse ignition timing you your injector might run out of phase too. ECU will read everything wrong and very wrong the more you turn it. Why!!! Due to standard ECU limitation and something car manufacturer need to take into consideration which is dynamic changes.

The only thing to have optimise timing without digging standard ecu and not much tuning from the beings is an X brand ecu. It will tap into the standard ecu ignition triggers and some modification on the engine block to have individual knock sensors for to some auto adjustment to each different cylinder for everynow and then. But there are disadvantages. what!!! THINK lah!!!!

If an engine do not need a lot of timing advancement = the engine don't have much tolerance. Why need tolerance? Nothing last forever dude. Did I answer your question why need a wide range of timing adjustment?

Sorry sifu sekalian. Long time didn't come in. Sekali masuk membebel banyak kat sini.

 

[GT20v]

emmm william...welcome back.........and i tot u cant speak malay at all........hahhahahahahahha:_:

 

[QiW]

OZ training liauu one maa .. all power power cars there one .. sure power tok one laa .. malay or ingleesh oso can one .. huahahahahahaaa
i would oso love a standalone .. but no $$$ not tok laa .. my usual story .. hehehe