Turbo-ing a 1.3 HC-E Engine?

[teztozterone]

I was wondering, as a G100 owner, planning to swap from an 1.0 CB23 engine

to a 1.3 kissa engine (HC-E).

Any of you fellow charader's has ever done the following :-

2) I'm planning to soup up the HC-E further with a turbocharger :P
Please advice if anyone has done so..

3) Besides Turbo-ing it, is there any other way to improve performance of the
HC-E?

Any sort of assistance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tezt.

 

[meandmebitch]

can b turbocharged,find suitable pistons,turbine n custom make a ex manifold..hv to get FCD n SAFC or any other fuel management(to control ur boost, coz NA ecu don understand ecu, or get emanage which also has fuel management control n boost cut controller) or if u can afford it a full standalone ecu..

NA oso can mod but no point..not much aftermarket parts for 1.3 daihatsu..n da powerband wouldnt b such a difference..so better play turbo...

i'm oso usin g100 but 4efte engine...
if u wan to know more u can contact me at 012 2345 042...
i can give u a free consultation on wat u can do..
cheers..

 

[teztozterone]

Thanks for the great insight bro!

I was considering the 4e-fte as well, but seemed to be more troublesome these

days with all the endorsement and stuff, I heard puspakom is stricter these days

on inspection.. so I thought to just plonk in a HC-E and turbo it.. hehehe

How's the 4e's performance, I heard its a very powerful and reliable engine,

but ppl say the oil filter susah nak tukar wor? Is it true? The g100 engine bay is

a little smaller than the ep82's.. Thats what i found out la..

What turbine do u recommend me to get? With less lag and better response in

respect to the engine's capacity?

Oh, I have to buang the NA ecu and get a standalone la?

Which brand of standalone is best?

Do advise,

THanks alot,
Tezt.

 

[meandmebitch]

well..4efte as i know cant b registered wit g100 body..coz all mountings gotta change..so it actually depends on u..how often u use da car?regulary got block onot??things like tat..for example i rarely drive my g100..normally i drive a stock kelisa around..from a-z..so i didnt register mine..

4e is quite a powerfull engine..135hp if not mistaken..u can use it stock if u wan n its quite powerfull..hard to change oil filter?no such thing..very easy..

to turbo ur HCE u gotta hv piggy back stuff or full standalone..piggy stuff such as FCD(fuel cut defencer) n safc..ur stock ecu wont give enough fuel..or standalone..at least 2k++...
if u wanna find out more..feel free to gimme a ring..
eres some pics of my 4e in my g100..it aint standard 4e but itll give u an idea of wat u can do...
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=101667

 

[teztozterone]

Sweet Ride bro! Bet it must've cost a bomb la.. hehehe... U use it for drag racing?

Got join Sepang Drag or not? How fast u clocked 0-100kmh or quarter-mile?

U using a T04e turbine huh? Must kick in damn a lot of power wei... easily 180 or
200hp ++

I heard that it COULD be endorsed but have to pay runner bout rm700++ to do it.

So, all in all, could come up to rm6k-7k.. +engine +repairs on hafkat + workmanship + runner fee + inspection..

DOn't have the budget.. hehe... So, HC-E is a cheaper option la..

One more thing bro, where did u get the strut-bar? Its custom right?

Thanks for all d help,
Tezt.

 

[meandmebitch]

yeah..its a to4e..not 180hp -200..its 300hp-400..so i had to hybrid da rear..aiming at 200-350hp.....
goin sepang soon...waitin for some stuff..
strut bar usin starlet but jus make terbalik..fits pewrfectly..cant use gttin coz my brakepump blockin it..
cheers.
if u wanna turbo charge gimme a ring..can hook u up..

 

[teztozterone]

WTF?!?! Thats some real SICK power going into the g100

frame...lol..:confused_smile: Do u think it would be a 10 sec. car on Sepang?

Might be possible.. hmm... With using the slicks la.. Otherwise, sure burn rubber

wan...haha

Wow! Even if terbalik, it would serve its purpose right? What do u use to stabilize

the rear?

Oh! thanks for the help.. What brands and kinds of turbo's u have? And the price

range bro?

 

[meandmebitch]

10secs??that would b great if can get tat la..but dunno..if can get 11 oso ok...da rear not usin anythin coz my car not really aiming for cornering..jus 400m only..got slicks di..17"..turbo got alot..depends wat u wan..got big got small..mostly garrets la..rm500-12k oso got..

 

[teztozterone]

Bro, ntg. is impossible la, just that whether spend enuff of time and money on the

ride or not..lol...

Oh, Garrett's la... Which turbine do u think is best for the HC-E? For a good

balance for good pick-up and top speed? By that, how many hp do u think it will

add? An NA HC-E is about 94hp i think..

Pls advice. thanks.

 

[everblur]

What do you guys think of fixing a Garrett A/R 60 turbo to the G100 1.0 standard engine? Any comments?

 

[teztozterone]

hmm...In my opinion la..

a cb23 is already fuel consuming enuff lar.. a full tank of 30 ltrs can get me only

to 280-300kms.. in contrast with my dad's Myvi, 1.3 dvvt twin cam 16 valve,

full tank of 30 ltrs, can get him to 430-450kms.

In support of my statement, even my forman told me not to do it. Its a 1.0 3cyl.

6 valve Sohc engine. Even if you turbo it.. the internals might not hold up to high

boost..

He recommended a transplant either a cb70 (1.0 3cyl. EFI twincam 12valve

intercooled turbo ) or a HC-E (1.3 4cyl. EFI 16 valve sohc NA )... which i plan to

turbo it anyway..lol..

From hearsay, the HC-E and the CB70 (gtti engine) shares same internals, like

piston rings, valves etc... So, I guess turbo-ing a HC-E shouldn't be much of a

problem even at higher boost. But, of course if you plan to go any higher,

a change of pistons and piston rings are needed ( to B8 maybe?) and as

Meandmybitch mentioned, SAFC and FCD are needed to control the fuel injected

into the engine for higher boost.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

CHeers,
Tezt

 

[V8_nutter]

HCE modification NA style ;

Fast & free horsepower hike

1) Using detomaso block & crank but using back HCE pistons. These setup will increase cc to 1600 with 11 ++ compression ratio. (RM 1000)

2) Port & polish HCE head (RM 500/1000)

3) Detomaso Throttle body on HCE manifold. (RM 500)

4) Detomaso fuel injector (RM 200)

5) Detomaso 4 to 5th gear. (RM 500)

6) Safc (RM 600)

Approx RM 4800 inclusive workmanship.



HCE 1.3 race mods

1) Detomaso injector (RM 200)

2) SAFC-2 (RM 600)

3) Mivec 60mm throttle body or 4 throttle (RM 500-1200)

4) Lighten crank & pulley (RM 500)

5) 272 race cam (RM 1200)

6) 4-1 xtractor (RM 400)

7) piston & conrod lightening (RM 300)

8) full engine balancing (RM 600)

9) MSD 6al distributor, amplifier, plugs wires (RM 2000)

Approx RM 9000 inclusive workmanship.

 

[Speed Demon]

Turbocharging an NA engine is always difficult due to strength of engine internals. Apart from that you will find using a fully programmable ECU is better because it gives you more control options and finer tuning. So based on just engine internals and a programmable ECU, your cost will already be nearly RM8K. A reconditioned balanced turbo will cost you around RM1K to RM2K (depending on what turbo you use). Throw in the cost of a custom exhaust manifold, workmanship charges etc and you are looking at a very expensive project.

Arrief, your quoted 300 - 400hp figures are based on dyno runs? If yes, it would be very interesting to see what times you clock at Sepang. Please let us know when you're joining Sepang Drag. I'll definitely be there!

 

[Speed Demon]

I forgot to mention this:

You can fit almost any turbocharger of your choice to any engine. Your limitations would be space (in the case of Charade engines there isn't much between the engine block & aircond condenser) and also how much boost your engine internals can withstand. With your boost comes the prerequitise of fueling. So any bolt-on turbo would require you to upgrade your engine's fueling capabilities.

Which is why a fully-programmable ECU is necessary as it allows for fine control of fuelling and provides the additional benefit of ignition timing control, something which might be necessary depending on engine.

Most importantly, engine internals strength is important. Just because you are able to run at 2 bar boost and nothing happen doesn't mean its ok. It might be ok for now but can your engine take it all the time? Unless you can afford frequent engine rebuilds, be realistic and settle for smaller turbos and lower levels of boost. Remember that high boost is not everything.....torque is also important.

Just my 2 sens....

 

[teztozterone]

Wah! Thanks V8_nutter and Speed Demon... Very informative.. Cheers bros!

Yeah, as u said V8_nutter, if I mod. like this.. HC-E 1.3 racing mods,

1) Detomaso injector (RM 200)

2) SAFC-2 (RM 600)

3) Mivec 60mm throttle body or 4 throttle (RM 500-1200)

4) Lighten crank & pulley (RM 500)

5) 272 race cam (RM 1200)

6) 4-1 xtractor (RM 400)

7) piston & conrod lightening (RM 300)

8) full engine balancing (RM 600)

9) MSD 6al distributor, amplifier, plugs wires (RM 2000)

How much hp are we looking at? or can be expected?

Bro Speed Demon,

Does HC-E share engine components from gtti ( cb70 )?

If so, wouldn't it be strong enough for consistent 1 bar without any probs.?

Electronics aside, just the mechanical part of the engine structure?Pls advise. Tq

Bro meandmybitch,

Yeah, when are you running at Sepang Drag?

Interested to see your "bitch" perform too...hehehe...

Cheers y'all,
Tezt

 

[everblur]

I forgot to mention this:

You can fit almost any turbocharger of your choice to any engine. Your limitations would be space (in the case of Charade engines there isn't much between the engine block & aircond condenser) and also how much boost your engine internals can withstand. With your boost comes the prerequitise of fueling. So any bolt-on turbo would require you to upgrade your engine's fueling capabilities.

Which is why a fully-programmable ECU is necessary as it allows for fine control of fuelling and provides the additional benefit of ignition timing control, something which might be necessary depending on engine.

Most importantly, engine internals strength is important. Just because you are able to run at 2 bar boost and nothing happen doesn't mean its ok. It might be ok for now but can your engine take it all the time? Unless you can afford frequent engine rebuilds, be realistic and settle for smaller turbos and lower levels of boost. Remember that high boost is not everything.....torque is also important.

Just my 2 sens....

Hey Speed, I guess this answers my question in regards to the Garrett A/R 60 turbo kit?

 

[meandmebitch]

hey speed!!!how r u man???long time no hear...hope everythings workin out well wit ur car..anyways i didnt say y car is 300-400hp, jus usin a hybrid turbine wit tat output hopin to get da same..i'll b happy enough if i had 300hp...
n yeah...joining sepang soon..on da 5th...hmm...nxt saturday...will call u..ur no still da same rite??but got slight problems la..usin microtech now, but had some twiches..had to send back to aussie..so might b enterin wit stock ecu..but anywasy will b enterin..group B..i know iknow..all da cars in group B all freakin fast..but wat to do..cant enter any other group..well if any of u guys comin..i'll b da car tats bright orange...wit a gt wing..
cheers..
n tezt...mr speed=SIFU..kkk..
cheers..

 

[Speed Demon]

hey speed!!!how r u man???long time no hear...hope everythings workin out well wit ur car..anyways i didnt say y car is 300-400hp, jus usin a hybrid turbine wit tat output hopin to get da same..i'll b happy enough if i had 300hp...
n yeah...joining sepang soon..on da 5th...hmm...nxt saturday...will call u..ur no still da same rite??but got slight problems la..usin microtech now, but had some twiches..had to send back to aussie..so might b enterin wit stock ecu..but anywasy will b enterin..group B..i know iknow..all da cars in group B all freakin fast..but wat to do..cant enter any other group..well if any of u guys comin..i'll b da car tats bright orange...wit a gt wing..
cheers..
n tezt...mr speed=SIFU..kkk..
cheers..

Well I've been pretty busy with work so my car has been neglected. Also, a lot of parts are needing replacement & maintenance. Just changed my engine mountings, wheel bearing & serviced my throttle body last week. Next is a new set of rims and also HWL adjustables. Rims might be done this week but the HWLs are a problem cause I need to use my car.

Also, 180+bhp for daily use is more than enough for me. Especially with the high price of fuel....thank goodness for electronic boost controllers! But even then I can only get around 270 ~ 300km per 26.04 litres! :cry_smile:

I will definitely be going to watch the drag if you are joining. Anybody else wants to go with me?

Tez, I'm not sure about the shared components between the HC-E & GTti. What is the bore & stroke of the HC-E? I think they are most probably different.

Aaron, it's just my opinion about fitting larger turbos. Like I said, if you want you can always fit a larger turbo. Look at meandmebitch's turbo! :omg_smile:

 

[V8_nutter]

Wah! Thanks V8_nutter and Speed Demon... Very informative.. Cheers bros!

Yeah, as u said V8_nutter, if I mod. like this.. HC-E 1.3 racing mods,

1) Detomaso injector (RM 200)

2) SAFC-2 (RM 600)

3) Mivec 60mm throttle body or 4 throttle (RM 500-1200)

4) Lighten crank & pulley (RM 500)

5) 272 race cam (RM 1200)

6) 4-1 xtractor (RM 400)

7) piston & conrod lightening (RM 300)

8) full engine balancing (RM 600)

9) MSD 6al distributor, amplifier, plugs wires (RM 2000)

How much hp are we looking at? or can be expected?

Bro Speed Demon,

Does HC-E share engine components from gtti ( cb70 )?

If so, wouldn't it be strong enough for consistent 1 bar without any probs.?

Electronics aside, just the mechanical part of the engine structure?Pls advise. Tq

Bro meandmybitch,

Yeah, when are you running at Sepang Drag?

Interested to see your "bitch" perform too...hehehe...

Cheers y'all,
Tezt

With an experience mechanic, you can get 160-165 bhp with that setup. For the unexperience mechanic, you will see 130bhp only.:mouth_closed:

 

[teztozterone]

Oops, my mistake Speed Demon, not exactly the same la.. The Bore of both HC-E

and Gtti is the same at 76mm respectively but the HC-E's Stroke is 71.4mm as

opposed to the gtti's 73mm... and sorry to bother, but you didn't answer my

previous question la, are stock HC-E internals strong enough to sustain 1 bar

boost?Btw, what are you riding bro?One more thing bro, how much is the price for

the Sepang Drag tickets? To watch la I mean...hehehe.. Thanks.

bro V8_nutter,

Using which turbine bro, to get 160hp++? Or is NA can reach that value already? Wah Lao! Thats means

if add turbo can easily 200hp++? Thanks.

Bro meandmybitch,

Not bad man, class B, No NOS category right? Pit against all the turbo-d cars with higher cc's?

Hahaha... They sure think if place you in class C you sure tapao other cars leh? lol.

All the best bro! Gam ba teh!

Regards,
Tezt.