How to set cam pulley??

[tom's]

just wondering if there is any book like "setting cams pulley for dummies"

hahahaha.....

my question is if anyone of use use it before.....share some opinion..... currently using toda cam pulley on my exhaust only....... plan to install the intake later on....... i have tried setting few time...... from stock to advanced 10 degree..... feel 'wah laneh' high rpm above 5k so fast...... but low rpm really suck.......gonna try retard it and see what the diff....

wanna know if there is a formula like (with 2 cam pulleys), intake advance, exhaust have to retard or so on..... or can rojak here n rojak there.....worry i set wrongly the valve hit each other......hahahah........

please advice...........

 

[AutoBlackie]

I have a set of toda ex and in adj cam pulleys in my Black top. If I am not wrong, you are
the one with high cams?? High cams...idling sucks. High end...very cun..

I've set my adj. to provide low end as I drive an auto and around town alot. If I go track diff.
story.

Currently, power comes bout 3.4k rpm. Setting is In. pulley 6 degrees retard. Ex bout 2.5 degrees adv. Using stock cams. Always remember the cam turns at half the speed as compared to the crank. So 6+2.5=8.5, I would have reduced 17 degress of overlap.

Why? doing so that it will reduce overlap and therefore better low end. (I guess that's how the vvt pulley works). However, high end is not as nice as before...(trade-off).....

With high cam, adj. pulley can help compensate your idling problems. And yet still able to provide a much better degree of high end fun.

Found out that advancing Ex. will also advance your ignition timing as it is directly connected to the spark distribution. So adv 10 degrees will cause your car to ping like mad. So check ignition timing every time you play with the exhaust pulley.

By advancing ex. will also reduce overlap, but you'll soon find out that your ignition timing have a max that you can adj. at the distributor.

After some experiment found that the best way to make idling smoother is to retard the IN. and adv the EX.

 

[Acoustic]

Hi autoblackie

I would think everything retard would be for low end. Unless I remember the test books correctly.

And good point about the ex. retard, timing also follow retard, hence each time change the ex. must re-set timing to 10 degrees

Also good point about cam pulley changes 1 degree = crank 2 degrees

I've found that setting ex. or in. either 1 degree at the cam does not sacrifice the other end.

i.e. retard to get low end but don't not loose top end.

1 degree seem to the universal balance from the stock setup.


Your AUTO, will gain much more from a long running 4-2-1 like mine. Traction also increases dramatically with a tuned 4-2-1 like 10 folds (exagerated).

But thinking back, when I change my 4-1 estimated optimum for 13,000 rpm to my current 4-2-1 specially calculated for 5,200 - the rear traction increased approximately 5 folds.

acceleration, cornering grip, everything improved.

My friend's MIVEC used to step on 30% to follow me last time had to increased pace using 50% while I kept like same throttle as before.


The feeling of a 4-2-1 is like FAT while the 4-1 is thin until the starting excitation, on my previous 4-1 was around 4,000 rpm then suddenly explode and plunges forward, and after that keeps plunges and slow then plunges and slow. Power delivery not consistent.

The 4-2-1 is extremely consistent.

Stock 4-2-1 is not optimised from factory and is estimated to be optimum for around 16,000

i.e. my 4-2-1 is

primary 1 meter
secondary 0.5 meter
optimum for 5,200 rpm

if

primary 0.5 meter
secondary 0.25 meter
optimum for 10,400 rpm



And stock setup is
primary 0.3 meter
secondary also 0.3 meter or more
estimated optimum for around 16,000 rpm

 

[dreamy]

walao eh so confuse & so complicated

 

[synchron]

Mind telling which type of camshafts and the specs are u using??

 

[AutoBlackie]

Firstly, the question to ask before adjusting your cam pulleys is this.
How did they tune the stock engine?
Answer....
I presume...high end power and VVT to retard to compensate for the loss of low end.
You must know this first. Not all engines are tuned like this. Therefore the starting point to tune differs.

Next what happens....if VVT is disabled? (if you replace the In. with a adj. cam pulley.)
Forget the low end power. There is no mechanism to give you low end. Except your skills
in making adjustments to your pulleys.

What VVT does to give you low end? This is another question that needs an answer? What happens to your cam degree when VVT activates..retard or advance? What is the idea behind this cam degreeing? How will it affect the overall working of the engine? If advance what will happen? Overlap? Compression? Yes compression gets affected. Blowdown period? Scavanging effect? and bla bla bla.. Likewise if retard..

It is quite interesting. Know the philosophy behind the 4AGE and you'll know how to tune it.

 

[rollakid]

i thought there are some general info on billsherwood's site, its generalized but still good reading material. after reading that somehow i know why vvt open and then off again at high rev.. still trying to understand more tho.. dun really get everything yet..

 

[tom's]

on sat i tried set my timing (ex advance 5degree), using diagnostic tool not timing light...... my timing was around 8.....then i adjust the distributor and get the average of 12..... then i tested the car i feel slight weak beyond 7k rpm, might be my setting out..... will try again tomolo...... i really do need the intake cam pulley..... will try dyno tuning after i get the other pulley......

edmund: last time i think so like that too i thot my vvt turn off at 7Krpm, that why u feel the slight drop of power if u go beyond..... but try using trumpet n open pod.... then you'll like wow pull all the way to 7800...... even when i dynoed.... power all the way up, did not drop after 5Krpm......

just found out my trumpet net all koyak.....remove everything....luckily found out early if not die lorrr went into the engine

 

[TauhuTauhu]

alvin, rollakid is christopher, tauhutauhu is edmund...haha
:p

btw, u r driving without filter for so long liao wor...not worried arr?

 

[tom's]

hahaha....sorry sorry.....mixed up sometime.......

pasang back my filter yesterday......coz net also koyak...... i been using 2 layer of fine net and girl stocking.....hahahaha......cheap filter......

another experience today....use back my hks air filter... peaceful liao....and gain some low end power and smoother powerband, including advanced to 10 degree on in.... all this make me confuse only.....but knocking but i guess normal coz tekan too much at 6th gear....hahaha

 

[rollakid]

http://www.billzilla.org/engvariable.html

i read those stuff bout cam timing and intake and exhaust length and such... sherwood's work, got to be reliable, at least for a general info. this is where it makes me think why the vvt will go on and off too.

 

[AutoBlackie]

rollakid, the article is good stuff. I used my butt dyno to get the sweet spot.
Too expensive for me to do the many dyno runs like sherwood did. Luckily I am
not too far off.
Indeed a practical and clear piece of info.
Thanks mate!

 

[Acoustic]

Hi guys

club4ag is discussing about VVT vs. VTEC, although it a different topic, but I'm something overlaps, may be useful to you guys???

http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105399

 

[4agze]

nice... alvin, now your only using ex adj cam pulley is it?

 

[tom's]

lee....yup

anyone wanna kongsi beli toda cam pulley..... coz i gonna place order around next month......please gimme a call n discuss about price n etc........

 

[rollakid]

rollakid, the article is good stuff. I used my butt dyno to get the sweet spot.
Too expensive for me to do the many dyno runs like sherwood did. Luckily I am
not too far off.
Indeed a practical and clear piece of info.
Thanks mate!

those chart are from a simulation software he use.. :D probably not real dyno, but he claim it to be 95% accurate :)

 

[Acoustic]

there are two kinds of theory in this world

1) proven theory - created from real life results - they are always correct, but if the result came out wrong, then it's always the user's error of lack of understanding of the LIMITATION of that formula.

2) unproven theory - we will never see these formula is our lifetime because they are never realised to the public - only researchers look for them in their own society and keep working on them until correct.

The formulas in the simulation software everyone could buy today are all based on 1) and are all accurate for the "PARAMETERS" involved in the formula.

If this real have 10 elements, but the user forgot to include something and only use 8 elements, then it's the users fault, not the formula problem.

Get it?

 

[AutoBlackie]

Way to go Acoustic!

Anyway, from my little experience, here is what I did when adjusting the pulleys.
1) Document every adjustment, note down its effects.
2) Adjust in small increments, 1 or 2 degrees at a time.
3) Adjust one pulley at a time.
4) Remember to consider the ignition timing when Ex. pulley has been adjusted.-
if you do not have a strobe, have to use your ears to listen to pinging. use a no.12
to loosen the nut to the distributor and push down is adv (clockwise) and pull up retard.
This is important as you might not be able to feel the change the new setting gives you.
5) Changing the In. pulley setting changes the powerband more significantly (from experience). It is a good place to start as you do not have to adjust the ignition timing after that.
6) Make sure you have time to spare as you'll have to test every different setting you made.
7) Somehow without reseting the ECU you'll still be able to feel the difference (from experience).

Here is a recommendation from me for your 272 cams. In. Cam 8 to 10 degrees retard and Ex. Cam 3 to 5 degrees advance. Make sure ignition timing is advanced set to bout 12 degrees after that. This will reduce overlap, and help smoothen your idling.
If you don't like the setting, it's oK, Remember? it's adjustable : )

 

[4agze]

alvin, i thought you have 1 pair of toda already?

 

[tom's]

lee only one....the ex......gonna get the intake..... so anyone wanna order as well let me know.....order in bulk cheaper....last time 1 also order in bulk 4 sets.....